NX250 street tires

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Zigomatix
Beiträge: 90
Registriert: Fr Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Wohnort: France, Brittany

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von Zigomatix »

You are absolutly right Michael, the front tire was mounted wrong way. I did notice it when I was puting back the wheel on the bike but it was sunday. In france, you cannot bring your bike to a shop and ask for tires with different dimensions but those approuved, you have to bring your wheels only and then you can ask for whatever you want. I went back to the shop today and they reverse it.
It is 3.25 x 19

I am realy happy with those tires. I am trying to find how much to inflate them and getting them hot. They inflated front to 2.2 b wich is too much, currently trying 2 b as stated by Honda but will surely go down to 1.9.
Rear was 2.2 b but not heating enough for me so I am going down to 2.1 actualy.

Patrick
HRC

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von HRC »

Zigomatix hat geschrieben: Di Okt 06, 2020 9:51 pm Rear was 2.2 b but not heating enough for me so I am going down to 2.1 actualy.
The pressure has very little influence on how much the tires heat up. With racing tires you actually decrease the pressure in case of high ambient temperatures. The cause for that is to increase the contact patch in order to avoid local overheating of the tire.

Cold tire pressure should be so that the warm tire pressure is at its optimum. That actually means that on the street you should use higher cold pressure on cold days there you don´t get the tires up to temperature (if you set 2bar at 20°C, the tire pressure will increase to 2.2bar at 50°C tire temperature (temperature of the air inside not of the surface). If you set 2bar at 10° and get the tires only up to 30°C, the warm tire pressure will be only 2.1bar).
Zigomatix
Beiträge: 90
Registriert: Fr Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Wohnort: France, Brittany

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von Zigomatix »

Hi, I don't know if I understand well your statement HRC.
It's been a long time I run my tires a litle under flated in order to heat them up faster : when tires are under flated they twist much more then they heat.
While heating pressure goes up so they twist less arriving to a stable balance. That stable balance should be the correct pressure for the bike at the correct working temperature of the tire (that also depends on the brand and model of tire you are running).

The more they reach their working température the more they stick to the road, that is the main goal. Problem is the faster they worn as well ...

This tip comes from a friend of mine who is "ducati club de France" 2018 champion (And still racing and winning this year :D ).

All I have to find is how much I can deflate to reach that balance but I don't even know what should be the correct temperature of the BT46 because Bridgestone does not give this information.
It might not be dangerous to deflate the BT46 on the NX because those tires are designed for much heavier bikes.

I will let you know my feelings ...
HRC

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von HRC »

In general I agree with you. I just wanted to say that the effect of that extra twisting on the tire temperature is rather low. To generate more heat, you need to brake and accelerate harder. That has much more effect. You can see that e.g. on recommend tire pressures for track use: Michelin recommends lower tire pressure for faster riders.

Recommend tire pressure for the street is often too high, since many manufactures don´t recommend different pressures for different use any more but just state the pressure for full load and high speed. For modern radial tires the standard pressure is 2.5 at the front, 2.9 at the rear. That doesn´t work for single rider on twisty roads!
On my VTR with Michelin Power RS I use 2.2-2.4bar front and 2.2-2.5bar rear. Back to ambient temperature and cold tire pressure: In August i had a nice ride together with a friend at fairly hot weather. Since i know that that guy rides very fast (a long time ago he was European SSP 600 champion), i checked tire pressure before heading out (in the garage, so cooler than outside). The bike stood around for a longer time, so tire pressure was down to 2.1 front (don´t remember rear, but similar). Before i reached the next gas station to fill up air, the bike already felt very good and i didn´t fill up air. 2 Days later i headed out for the Alps and it was much colder and the roads were damp. The front didn´t feel good and i added 0.2bar and the bike felt great for the whole trip.
Zigomatix hat geschrieben: Do Okt 08, 2020 9:42 pm The more they reach their working température the more they stick to the road, that is the main goal. Problem is the faster they worn as well ...
Not necessarily. Tires wear faster when they get to hot or when they stay to cold. Look at people using Pirelli Supercorsa. Most of them have so little mileage because they don´t get the tires up to their operating temperatures. With Michelin Pilot Power that i used on my commuting bike, i noticed that they wore faster during winter than during summer. Last year i was at Sachsenring together with a few other people and 2 of them had ZX-10R with Bridgestone V02. Ambient temperature was fairly low (<20°C and cloudy). One was going 1:41 and the tires looked perfect, the other was going >2min and the tires were completely destroyed.
Zigomatix hat geschrieben: Do Okt 08, 2020 9:42 pm don't even know what should be the correct temperature of the BT46 because Bridgestone does not give this information.
Since it is a normal touring tire, the temperature range should be very broad. Optimum maybe aorund 40°C :?:
Zigomatix
Beiträge: 90
Registriert: Fr Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Wohnort: France, Brittany

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von Zigomatix »

Hi HRC, I've read carrefuly what you wrote.
Finaly it looks logical. As I follow MotoGP on TV, they often speaks about tire temperature and pressure (not giving figures).
My friend is running Pireli supercorsa on tracks and he heats them up to 90°C before going on track.
Therefore I am wondering if 40° C would be enough.
I know my S22 on my Speed Triple are warmer than that when I'm on road. But S22 are more racing oriented than BT46.
It would be interesting, next time I go and see my friend racing, I will bring with me a laser thermometer and check his tires before and after his run.
As well I will take it to scan my S22.

Anyway, I think it will be hard to reach 40° C on the NX :D :lol: too light and brake isn't powerfull enough !
I am currently running at 1.7b front and 1.9b rear, I won't go down.
HRC

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von HRC »

Zigomatix hat geschrieben: Mo Okt 12, 2020 3:35 pm My friend is running Pireli supercorsa on tracks and he heats them up to 90°C before going on track.
Therefore I am wondering if 40° C would be enough.
I know my S22 on my Speed Triple are warmer than that when I'm on road.
When going on the track with Supercorsa, tire warmers are a good idea. 90°C sounds fairly high, though. At least for the street legal version (SP, the SC is a slick compound). Standard for most "beginner" race tires is 80°C. But they should stand that temperature.
A few years ago, Michelin puplished information about the temperature range of race tires. For the Supersport Evo, that i was using as road and track tire at that time, they listed for the front min: 35°C, optimum 60 (or was it 70)°C, max. 90°C, for the rear min.. 40°C, optimum 80°C, max. 100°C.
They don´t publish that any more for road legal tires, but one person that works for Michelin told me that up to 90°C wouldn´t be a problem for the Power RS rear tire. The S22 should be fairly similar, so i guess the upper end of the temperature range would be also around 80-90°C (for the rear, front typically a little lower). With less sporty tires (Michelin Pilot Power), i experienced the upper end of the temperature range to be around 60-70°C (i was at Oschersleben and noticed the tires to become slippery because of overheating. A few minutes after i stopped some guy measured 58°C at the edge of the tires).
Zigomatix hat geschrieben: Mo Okt 12, 2020 3:35 pm Anyway, I think it will be hard to reach 40° C on the NX too light and brake isn't powerfull enough !
That´s true :D
Zigomatix
Beiträge: 90
Registriert: Fr Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Wohnort: France, Brittany

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von Zigomatix »

Thanks for those informations, I will surely give them to my friend. I can't remember wich version of the supercorsa he runs, I think it's SC.

Well time to give my feelings about my bike running BT46, I traveled 250 km.
Despite beeing unable to warm them up (pretty cold those days here, air was 5° yesterday at 7:00 am) I realy appriciate riding them.
I feel a bit more secure during roundabout and tight corners. Most of all, they don't slip on wet road, at least they've never did at this time (the TW did before :D ). And they are good on wet white road paintings too.

So far I am happy, I will see how long they last but I think I will keep them for a moment, they won't worn that fast ...

Patrick
jonathan
Beiträge: 127
Registriert: Fr Sep 13, 2019 12:11 am

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von jonathan »

ideally, you would have four sets of wheels and tyres, two road-based sets for winter and summer, and two off road sets, one for dry, rocky conditions and the other for wet muddy terrain....that equates to a lot of money invested in wheels and tyres, and a lot of wheel changes :shock: I base tyre choice on best grip on cold, wet tarmac and put up with the compromise for other surfaces.
HRC

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von HRC »

jonathan hat geschrieben: Mo Okt 19, 2020 10:15 pm base tyre choice on best grip on cold, wet tarmac and put up with the compromise for other surfaces.
That´s what i also do for my commuting bike. But, whatever works good on cold, wet tarmac also works well on dry, warm tarmac. At least on public roads. On the track tires with a lot of silica might overheat and get slippery but not on public roads, esp. not with <150 bhp.
Zigomatix
Beiträge: 90
Registriert: Fr Jan 10, 2020 5:25 pm
Wohnort: France, Brittany

Re: NX250 street tires

Beitrag von Zigomatix »

jonathan hat geschrieben: Mo Okt 19, 2020 10:15 pm ideally, you would have four sets of wheels and tyres,
That would be too much ! I don't plan to go off road that often. Only during my summer holydays when I go to my parent's house. They live south Bordeaux in the middle of the heath. Tracks are pretty sandy going their way through pines.
I will be happy with 2 sets ! The NX is here to go to work.
If I follow your mind, I will prefer having several bikes than several sets of tires :D
And that is what I do : 1 for every day use (NX) & 1 for road fun (1050 speed triple). If I was able I would have a 1200 V-Max for cruising & maybe a 400cc KTM or Husky enduro for pure off-road. Sweet dream ;)

Anyway, I have freinds (and I) planning to buy CBR 125 for a summer road trip on equal bikes. But I don't think I will keep it. Buy it for summer than sell it again.

I totaly agree with HRC about wet and dry tire performances on public road.
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